Mobomo

BACKGROUND

Please describe your company.

We are a think tank in Washington, D.C. We’re a public policy research organization that works to advance the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets, and peace. Our scholars and analysts conduct independent, nonpartisan research around policy issues.

What is your position?

I’m a research fellow and the main editor of our website.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

What challenges were you trying to address when you approached Intridea?

We had launched our website a year before I started working with Intridea, and had initially launched it with a small design budget. We had previously worked with a very small design firm to put together the first version of our website. It was good to begin with but then as the site grew, and we had more resources to work on, it was clear that we wanted something with a more robust design, chiefly something that was responsive, that would work on mobile devices as well as desktops.

SOLUTION

Please describe the scope of their work.

We had them rebuild the front-end of the site effectively from scratch. They did all of the design and the front-end code, but our in-house developers had already built a back-end, in this case with Drupal. So, our in-house guys took the front-end code that Intridea gave us and made it work with the back-end. What they handed off to us were Photoshop files along with HTML and CSS files for all of the templates they built. For CSS, I think they used either SAS or LESS, one of the dynamic CSS packages.

How did you come to choose Intridea as your partner?

The firm we worked with for the first version of the site had recommended Intridea in case we outgrew them. Based on that recommendation, Intridea was one of the development firms that we approached to bid on our redesign project. We had sent out a handful of invitations and our team felt the most confident in Intridea. 

What was the project completed?

The relationship is ongoing. We’ve gone back to them some months after the redesign to make minor changes, and we added new sections to the site a couple of times with them. We will continue to work with them into the future, I’m sure. 

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

In terms of results, could you share any statistics, metrics, or user feedback that would demonstrate the quality of their performance?

Sure. Engagements for mobile users staying on the site went way up after the redesign. I get comments quite often about how nice the site looks and how responsive it is. It’s a major improvement. Comments along the lines of, "Among sites on this topic, this is easily the best looking one." Given the political nature of the site, and how strong political opinions are, I’ve seen a number of comments along the lines of, "I don’t like or agree with anything those guys are saying, but that’s a really nice looking website." The users have responded very strongly to the visual quality and the user experience of the site. For the amount of content that you’re able to navigate and browse, it’s surprisingly intuitive and fast. I’ve heard nothing but good things from people about it. Working with Intridea has always been a really easy and pleasant experience. The number of support cases submitted through our old site as compared to this new one is also much lower. People can find what they need and there are far fewer bugs on the site. It's also a much easier site to maintain from an administrative standpoint. 

When working with Intridea, is there anything that you would consider unique or special about their approach that distinguishes them from other vendors?

I couldn’t really tell you because their the only sizable design firm that I’ve worked with as a project lead. I don’t have much to compare them with. It was definitely a more enjoyable experience than what I had been led to believe through industry anecdotes, but other than that, I can't offer much. 

What advice, if any, would you give to a future client of theirs?

Let them do their thing and trust them. They’re good at what they do, so let them do their thing and don’t try to micro-manage the design end because they do terrific work. It’s all about coming to the table with a clear vision, a goal for what you want to convey. Don’t walk in with a "we need a good looking website" and a mentality to micro-manage the entire thing. Definitely put some serious thought into what you want your users to have at their fingertips when they land on your new site. "What content are they going to see and how should it make them feel?" and the like are questions that should be asked.

In retrospect, are there areas in which you think they could improve as a service provider?

I don’t ever recall running into problems. It was actually rather incredible. When things were going to take longer than what they estimated, they let us know that fairly quickly. There have never been big delays that caused problems with deployment or defects down the road. The process of working with Intridea has always been pleasant and smooth. We get along well, which is one of the reasons we’ll keep working with them into the future.

BACKGROUND

Please describe your company.

I work with a research center. We organize surveys of American and international populations and publish reports that are aimed to be factual and nonpartisan. We consider ourselves a fact tank rather than a think tank.

What is your position?

I’m a digital project manager.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

Could you describe the business challenge that you were trying to address when you first approached Intridea?

It was a specific project for our group that studies religion and public life. We have a treasure trove of data on all populations around the world that we wanted to surface for our users. We weren’t sure of the best way to do that. It was a data-driven project and we wanted to make sure it was user-friendly, and it seemed like a big undertaking, so we needed some outside help. That’s when we went searching for an external partner.

SOLUTION

Could you describe the scope of their involvement in greater detail?

They came in to do some initial interviewing of our target audiences and our stakeholders. We wanted them to create the wireframes and design, and then build the site and maintain it for us.

It’s a totally custom site. They are doing the hosting, and they had to figure out database connections, sort of read-only database rights. They didn’t do any training, per se. They did provide lots of great documentation, though. We left the data stuff to our own researchers. We do have designers and a couple of developers on staff, they just weren’t going to be able to devote as much time as necessary to complete the project. So, Intridea came in and built the site with Ruby on Rails, which ended up being outside our wheelhouse anyway. From conception to deployment and then maintenance and support, we were relying on them.

How did you come to choose Intridea as your partner?

We sent out RFPs [request for proposals] to eight or nine different agencies in the area. We definitely wanted someone local because we knew it was going to be a long-term project, and our stakeholders would be more comfortable if they could meet and greet the people working with us. Intridea was not on my list originally. They were referred me after we had already reached out to a bunch of different firms in the area. But Intridea came to us highly recommended. I went and met their design director and one of their founding partners. They bid on our project, and we liked their proposal and ended up going with them.

When was the project completed?

The initial contract took about two years, and the site launched in April 2014. We still use them for support.

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

In terms of results, could you share any statistics, metrics, or user feedback that would demonstrate the quality of their work?

It’s in beta mode now. We basically launched it as a testing ground. At the time, we only had data from 2010, and we’ve been working on data that will forecast what certain religious groups’ future numbers could look like, and we’re actually releasing those this April. We’ll lift the beta tag from it then. So, we do have some metrics, but I'm not sure how reflective they are just yet. We’re not marketing and pushing it that much, but early insights tell us that it is a fairly eclectic and wonky crowd. There are really only so many people out there that are interested in religious numbers of groups around the world and accessing that data in this way. So the traffic numbers are low, as we expected, but the retention and engagements rates are incredibly high. The average time on site is 11 minutes, and average pages per visit hovers around 14, which blows all of our other sites and projects out of the water. From a project management perspective, everything has been on the up and up, too. No issues with deliverables or timing or communication.

When working with Intridea, is there anything that you would consider unique or special about their approach or development methodology that distinguishes them from other vendors? 

I would say the reason we went with them is that they don’t have a lot of middlemen. With some agencies, the client doesn’t have any direct engagement with the designer or developer. You just interact with the project managers, and if there is any miscommunication, the designers or developers can’t get immediate feedback. We wanted a more agile and collaborative partnership. The reason why I like them so much is because they just have one project manager who is sometimes with our designer or developer. So, you feel like you’re not having to jump through hoops and talk to middlemen. You can talk directly with the people who are working on your project.

In retrospect, are there areas in which you think Intridea could improve as a service provider?

We didn’t really factor in the maintenance plan when we were starting out. Because we don’t have Ruby on Rails expertise in-house, we didn’t necessarily know what the long-term commitments would be. Now, we really are reliant on them. But, they don’t want to be a full-time maintenance shop, which is understandable since it is kind of boring. On the other hand, we don’t want to pay a ton of money to keep a site running. So, it’s sort of hard to find a middle ground where they can devote resources to us, usually in an emergency. We don’t want to pay them a retainer if we don’t need any help for a couple months. So, I think it’s just something that we didn’t really think about when we were starting out.

What advice, if any, would you give a future client of theirs?

Factor in the maintenance plan if you don’t have the necessary expertise in-house for the platform you’re developing on. That was definitely something we should have taken into consideration before deciding to build the site with Ruby on Rails, but it’s just a part of that learning process.

BACKGROUND

Could you provide a brief description of your organization?

I work for a management consultancy predominantly focused on the U.S. government.

What is your position?

I’m one of the managing partners.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

Could you describe the business challenges you were attempting to address when you first approached Mobomo?

We had a framework that we wanted to articulate to others in an interactive manner. It was to produce different outputs for the various scenarios and inputs with which we would be working. We wanted to have an app that was more of a marketing item. We wanted it to have a subset of the overall framework and capabilities. It was a sort of demo version.

The secondary project was an encapsulation of the full framework, all of its permeations, and then linking that up to a database wherein we could take the inputs in real time of multiple participants that would be using the app in a workshop or session. We would then aggregate their responses so that we could dig into what the organization’s current maturity or capabilities were at the starting point for our workshop, and the projects we would be working with them on. It had a lot of moving parts.

SOLUTION

Could you describe the scope of work in greater detail?

It was certainly a lot of design, within the design there were different aspects of how we broke that down. Really mapping out what we wanted to see as the framework in the two different projects. One being public facing, the other we were going to hold onto and use during different engagements. It became a matter of, what is the user experience, what are the outcomes, and how do we want to invest further?

They were great at exploring possibilities and then providing us with a couple of different options. Their design team would come in with mock-ups of option one, two, or three. We could evaluate right there and then. “What do you think?” They’d ask. Once we started honing in on what we wanted, it got even better from the standpoint of being more specific from a graphic design standpoint, and working through the finer points of what those specific interaction points needed to be. They got very creative with the interface operations as well as its presentation.

How did you select Mobomo as your solution partner?

We had worked with a number of folks, who were in the mobile space, in different aspects, some in mobile device management, others from app dev. We maintain a close relationship with Apple. But we fall more in the strategy and planning side of it, and certainly do not have the internal skill sets that were less available at that point in time, when we started working with Mobomo, to do some of the native iOS development.

I can’t recall who it was that recommended them to us, but once we had a conversation it became clear that they’d be a good fit. They were very effective at strategizing with us. We sat down and really dug into the details, and in the process we identified a number of additional factors that hadn’t been proposed beforehand. That was particularly impressive.

Could you provide a general cost estimate for this project?

It cost us between $125,000 and $150,000 during the course of two or three phases.

When was this project completed?

The first functional deployment was in the Apple iTunes app store in 2012. The other, more complex part, was finished and on the shelves some six months later.

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

In terms of results, could you share any statistics, metrics, or user feedback that would demonstrate the effectiveness of their work?

The success of the app is evidenced by the fact that the federal government still heavily uses it even today. We’ve put it into about 16 or 17 different government agencies, both DOD [United States Department of Defense] and civilian government organizations, during the last few years. It ties extremely well from an output standpoint into different variations of the final report that we give to the client. The extensibility and flexibility are fantastic.

When working with Mobomo, is there anything you’d consider unique about their approach or development methodology that distinguish them from other vendors?

There are a lot of companies claiming to do mobile app development. From doing assessments on behalf of the government, or looking at who is truly doing app dev with an understanding of integration on the back-end, as well as aspects of very creative UI [user interface] or UX [user experience], I would put them out and above, in that they have been doing this for four to five years. They truly understand the finer intricacies of not only how to produce an app, but to produce an app that delivers the actual output that the client is looking for, that incorporates external sources into the design.

They really saw through the integration that made our apps function the way they did. I’ve heard horror stories about other organizations contracting with other firms. When it came to production and they needed to put large volumes of data through their apps, that’s when you’d see things breaking left and right. The work they did for us was quite good from that standpoint; it was really built to last.

In retrospect, are there areas in which you think Mobomo could improve as a service provider?

The only thing I’d have changed is to have structured an agreement with them that would have allowed us to replicate the same public facing app onto multiple platforms. When we started in 2011, it made sense to target iTunes as the primary distribution hub. We probably should have thought at some point to put something up on Google Play. As Microsoft gets more of a user base, especially in the government market, to have something with them to allow us to easily port the intellectual property and the specifics of what we had done to other platforms under the same scope of work. But, that’s not their problem.

BACKGROUND

Could you provide a brief description of your organization?

We are a predictive and prescriptive analytics company.

What is your position?

I’m the founder and chief executive officer.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

Could you describe the scope of this project in greater detail?

One of our products that we used to launch our company back in June of 2011 was a Web- and mobile-based solution. It was a political-social network where people could meet and connect with others based on issue affinity rather than political party and identification. We hired Mobomo to handle some of the work in developing our apps and some of the custom APIs [application programming interface].

SOLUTION

How did you select Mobomo as your solution partner?

When we launched the company, we launched as a Web-only company. We knew we had to build a mobile presence rapidly, but we also knew the mobile app would be more complicated to implement. We decided that, for a whole host of factors, we would do an iOS app first. We began checking out the [Washington,] D.C., technology community for potential partners. Barg, one of the founders of Mobomo, had been a graduate of a local group of CEOs in D.C. called Mindshare, of which I was a part. It was through this group that I’d received a recommendation for Mobomo. 

I met with three of four others vendors, too, and after meeting with Barg and his team, it became clear that they’d give us the greatest likelihood of being able to hit our target deadline of having the app in the app store in advance of South by Southwest 2012, and also to hit it with a budget in mind.

Could you provide a general cost estimate for this particular project?

They wound up bringing it in for around $30,000.

When was this project completed?

The initial project was finished in late February or early March of 2012.

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

In terms of results, could you share any statistics, metrics, or user feedback that would demonstrate the effectiveness of their work?

They brought the project in accordance with the agreed upon scope, schedule, and budget. So, from that perspective, they did what they were contracted to do. We received positive overall feedback about the app from folks who were engaging with it at South by Southwest. General feedback around the app was that it was easy to use, had good visuals [and] good UI/UX [user interface/user experience]. It behaved quickly, and as one would hope and expect with an app, doing what we had it doing.

When working with Mobomo, is there anything you’d consider unique about their approach or development methodology that distinguishes them from other vendors?

They’re always very willing to give their advice in terms of what it’s going to take to have a project work well, or not well, relative to the goals of the buyer. For instance, when we were releasing the iOS app at that point in time, a lot of the research out there was showing that folks weren’t reading a lot on their smartphones. Remember, this was still Q1 [quarter one] of 2012. So, we had to make certain decisions regarding the functionality that we wanted to incorporate, and how that functionality was going to mirror, or not mirror as the case may be, the Web asset.

The guys at Mobomo were very willing to put their personal views on the table about what was going to make the app work or not work. The fact that they were willing to share their experience, in terms of what they were seeing in the marketplace place, with us and how that was going to impact the performance of the app, was one of the key aspects that really differentiated them.

In retrospect, are there areas in which you think Mobomo could improve as a service provider?

No. They did what they were contracted to do. They did it when they said they were going to do it, and they did it within the budget. That’s what we really cared about, along with the viability of the app. Mobomo succeeded on all counts.

BACKGROUND

Could you provide a brief description of your company?

I work for a government agency that operates and manages various official online portals. We’re very much an intermediary between public inquiry and official channels of information.

What is your position?

I’m the acting director.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

Could you describe the business challenges you were attempting to address when you first approached Mobomo?

When we began our relationship with Mobomo, we were focused primarily on the development of our website. There was a growing number of mobile users going to one of our sites and its sister site, which presents identical information, but in Spanish instead of English. I think the relationship began in 2011 or 2012. We were looking to create a mobile presence for our websites, so we could capture users that decided to browse our content on the move. It was a growing segment and we wanted to remain relevant.

SOLUTION

How did you select Mobomo as your solution partner for this endeavor?

We had worked with Mobomo before, but through a different contract. At the time, it was support for our search functionality onsite. We did an open procurement in 2011 and initiated a competitive bid process. They went through the full technical and price evaluation and they were the winning vendor.

Did you have a preference for developing your mobile application on a particular platform?

No, we didn’t. After discussing it extensively, they were a part of the entire product plan, we decided not to build it for a specific platform, but to build a responsive website instead. We didn’t want to build a native app and exclude certain users, and we didn’t want to develop the app for two different platforms simultaneously and risk spreading our resources too thin. Because of those issues, and pricing, we decided that implementing a responsive design would be the best possible fix. I mean, we’ve worked with them in the past to build native apps, but that wasn’t a part of this particular initiative. 

Could you describe the scope of this project in greater detail?

They provided project management. They were a part of the design conversation, but we have a fully staffed design team. We also have a fully staffed accessibility team. They were not taking the lead in either of those areas, but instead working in tandem with our designers, our accessibility experts, and our content managers. Most of their work was custom development, configuration, integration, and testing.

Could you provide a sense of the size of this initiative in financial terms?

We spent about nine months and an estimated $150,000 on their services for this particular deployment.

Do you recall when this was completed?

I want to say we finished in September of 2013.

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

In terms of results, could you share any statistics, metrics, or user feedback that would demonstrate the effectiveness of the work they’ve delivered?  

I can tell you anecdotally that we’ve been absolutely thrilled with their work. We’ve continued to see traffic to the responsive website increase. We’re very happy that we can meet what may be an otherwise naturally occurring increase in traffic. Our satisfaction scores remain consistent. We found no drop-off, which typically happens when you implement a redesign. We haven’t experienced any such decline in traffic. More importantly, we’ve definitely received some positive feedback from veteran users of the site, which is great. Overall, the redesign has been very successful.

When working with Mobomo, is there anything you’d consider unique about their approach or development methodology that distinguishes them from other vendors?

They have a very talented pool of professionals. We’ve been blown away by their professionalism, by their caliber, and by the quality of code their developers are capable of delivering to us. Across the board, they’ve been a pleasure to work alongside. I’ve always found it easy to communicate strategically with their higher-level executives. Our relationship has been a very positive experience.

In retrospect, are there areas in which you think Mobomo could improve upon?

We didn’t experience any issues with them during the course of the deployment. As mentioned, we have a very thorough vetting process, and we felt confident in their technical capabilities. We were definitely justified in the decision to commission their services. There may be areas they could improve, but I’m not personally familiar with what those areas might be.

BACKGROUND

Could you briefly describe your organization?

I work for a government research agency, but I’m afraid we’ll need to remain confidential.

What is your position?

I’m a manager responsible for most of our mobile and software development endeavors.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

Could you describe the business challenges you were attempting to address when you first approached Mobomo?

Sure. First of all, we prefer to avoid native mobile application development. In other words, we try not to write a special version for the iPhone, and then another version for Android. We were looking to hire a technology partner that could develop our custom mobile app.

SOLUTION

How did you select Mobomo as your solution partner for this endeavor?

We knew the Mobomo team through our relationship with their parent company. They’d already completed some custom work for us in the past, also as an independent contractor. I was explicitly referred to Ken Fang [president at Mobomo] by our mutual contact. I had an initial discussion with him about our project. We reviewed our requirements, objectives, and deployment strategy in considerable detail, and he offered a few key recommendations, one of which was to build our app using HTML5. That’s exactly what we ended up doing with them. I felt confident in their capabilities, and since we’d already completed work with them in the past, we didn’t have to worry about learning new workflows or anything.  

Could you describe the scope of work they’ve delivered over the course of this relationship?

This was an agile development project. They conducted user requirements gathering and scoped the project out. In the first few weeks, they proposed a wireframe and framework for developing the functional application. Once we agreed upon the deployment strategy, they went ahead and began the actual design and development. It took quite some time due to the complexities involved, but they remained very much on time with all of our deliverables. It was really quite impressive.

When was this project completed?

This project was completed near the end of 2013.

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

In terms of results, could you share any statistics, metrics, or user feedback you’ve received that would demonstrate the effectiveness of their work?

Unfortunately, we haven’t received any reviews on the Apple Store but, overall, internal feedback has been extremely positive. We’ve received praise from stakeholders regarding its aesthetic qualities as well as its functionality and usability. We don’t have any figures or metrics to share with you just yet, but the impressions have been very positive. This really isn’t surprising to us, though, because the deployment went so smoothly. The components they delivered to us as we moved through the deployment always passed our user tests with flying colors. They’re extremely talented developers with a knack for finding the most efficient solutions.

When working with Mobomo, is there anything you’d consider unique about their approach or development methodology that distinguish them from other vendors?

I would say they’re very timely and responsive. They really do adhere to the deployment timeline. If and when issues emerge that might detail the timeline, or somehow alter the predetermined scope, they’d be sending us detailed updates asking for guidance and feedback. This was key for us because there are a number of vendors that tend to fall off the map when things go slightly awry. That approach usually makes the situation that much worse because the client has no idea what’s happening. Mobomo doesn’t operate in that fashion, which was great. They demonstrated a level of professionalism and accountability that’s rare to find with IT [information technology] vendors.  

In retrospect, are there areas in which you think Mobomo could improve as a service provider?

My only recommendation would be the quality of their content services. For instance, during one of our content several migrations, there were numerous typos we found. I understand that they’re a group of technologists and we’ve hired them for development and design type work, but it’s also very simple to quickly proof the content and ensure there aren’t any obvious grammatical or spelling errors. I wish they’d have spent a little more time reviewing the content before the migration, so we wouldn’t have had to delegate our own copywriters and editors to scan all of our pages, one by one, in order to fix these mistakes. That would be the only area of improvement I’d be able to offer to you.

BACKGROUND

Could you briefly describe your organization?

I work for an independent agency of the District of Columbia government. We manage pension funds specifically. We manage $6 billion in investments for retirees that are members of our plans. We also administer annual member benefits to the tune of $600 million.

What is your position?

I’m the director of information technology.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

Could you describe the business challenges you were attempting to address when you initiated the relationship Mobomo?

We wanted to give our board of directors more information about how the funds were performing, how we were administering benefits, and how the agency was doing financially. Previously, the trustees would only receive information via paper documentation, much of which was outdated, inaccurate, or irrelevant by the time it reached its reader. We wanted to distribute that same valuable information in real time. We wanted our trustees to have reliable access to relevant and accurate information about our finances and operations. We engaged Mobomo to build a custom mobile application for the Apple iPad, which we distributed to each of our trustees. They would then be able to log in and authenticate and securely receive information from us.

SOLUTION

How did you select Mobomo as your solution partner for this endeavor?

We initiated an RFP [request for proposal] process and distributed it to several vendors we’d researched. Mobomo was one of them. They responded to our statement of work with a convincing proposal. We invited them along with a few other vendors to come to our office and demonstrate their relevant capabilities. We were ultimately the most impressed with Mobomo’s presentation. That’s basically how we originally came across them and commissioned their services.

Could you describe the scope of the work they’ve delivered to you over the course of this relationship?

Most of their work has been relegated to the design and functional development of our custom mobile application. They’ve also provided us with strategic insights regarding how to organize and present our user information as well as the business logic behind the various app functionalities. They’ve really been invaluable as a technology partner.

When was the most recent project completed?

This particular endeavor finished up last year [2013].

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

In terms of results, could you share any statistics, metrics, or user feedback that would demonstrate the effectiveness of their work?

We don’t have any exact statistics or metrics to share, but I can tell you that their work is right on target. I can, however, attest to the viability of their delivered solutions. The mobile application was launched with very few user-facing defects and bugs, many of which we were able to troubleshoot and resolve within the first 72 hours of deployment.

When working with Mobomo, is there anything you’d consider unique about their strategic approach or their development methodology that distinguishes them from other vendors?

They’re extremely knowledgeable and creative in the mobile space. It’s really their core competency. They understand how to build an intuitive, engaging, and elegant application. They have a deep understanding of the end-users and how they’d foreseeably interact with a device and its interface. They know how to reconsider even the most seemingly obscure and mundane facets of mobile design and development. Having that depth of expertise isn’t something you’re likely to come across very often, especially when working extensively with technology firms.

BACKGROUND

Please describe your company and your position there.

I’m the CTO of a company that automates the distribution of event tickets.

OPPORTUNITY / CHALLENGE

For what projects/services did your company hire Mobomo?

We were looking to build out a frontend for our new inventory management system.

What were your goals for this project?

We needed the interface to be modern, mobile-friendly, and evolutionary.

SOLUTION

How did you select this vendor?

We considered five companies in the selection process. Mobomo’s portfolio, cost, and location set them apart from the competition.

Can you go into detail about the services they provided and the scope of the project?

They led design and development in creating the frontend of our inventory management system.

What was the team composition?

We worked with two project managers, two designers, and two frontend engineers.

RESULTS & FEEDBACK

Can you share any information that demonstrates the impact that this project has had on your business?

Following the project’s completion, we applied their style guide to a variety of products we offer.

How was project management arranged and how effective was it?

We were happy with their communication throughout the project. In addition to our weekly meetings, we got frequent updates and questions via Basecamp and email.

What did you find most impressive about this company?

They were very responsive throughout the project.

Are there any areas where they can improve?

We missed our original deadline. However, when Mobomo noticed that we were falling behind, they added another senior engineer to the project at no extra cost.