Top Software Testing Companies in Raleigh
1 Leaders 15 Contenders
32 Companies
List of the Top Raleigh QA Testers
Sponsored
-
Featured
What are Featured Providers?
$25,000+$25 - $49 / hr1,000 - 9,999Serves Raleigh, NCServices provided
20% AI Development20% Cloud Consulting & SI10% CRM Consulting and SI +5 services10% Custom Software Development10% E-Commerce Development10% ERP Consulting and SI10% Enterprise App Modernization10% Mobile App DevelopmentSee all 87 projectsSimform is a software development and testing company that offers services including Application Quality Assurance and QA Testing. Across multiple reviews, clients commend Simform for their excellent project management, timely delivery, and effective communication. Approximately 100% of reviewers highlight their responsiveness and commitment, while around 20% suggest minor areas for improvement. Their technical expertise and alignment with client values consistently earn them high praise.
Reviews mention Reasonable pricing
Simform has received positive feedback regarding its reasonable pricing, with multiple clients highlighting the exceptional value for the quality of work delivered. One client noted that Simform provided 'excellent quality and support at an incredibly low cost,' while another emphasized that they were 'fairly cheap given the quality of work they produce.' Overall, the sentiment reflects satisfaction with the cost-effectiveness and affordability of Simform's services, making them a preferred choice for various projects.-
Mobile App Dev for Android-Based Payment Company
5.0 Apr 26, 2022I don't believe anyone could have gotten as much development as we have gotten done in the speed and cost which we have done it. I have taken SIMFORM into my client and in some cases they have cut 750K annual spend in 1/2 including paying for me and SIMFORM. So they are very cost effective from beginning to end.
Read Full Review -
Product Development for Engagement SaaS Provider
5.0 Sep 17, 2021Their prices had been great for the value delivered. They were very flexible when our team had a personal emergency interfere with the project. This is the reason I will certainly come back to Simform for more.
Read Full Review -
Mobile App Redesign for Employment Platform
5.0 Dec 7, 2017They’re fairly cheap given the quality of work they produce and offer a much better experience than other independent contractors. They’re a large company and function like one. Considering those factors, they’re a safe investment.
Read Full Review -
Website Development for Sports Software Company
5.0 Dec 30, 2024The value for the cost of the work is unmatched. Usually 'you get what you pay for', but in Simform's case, we've found that we've been able to get excellent quality and support at an incredibly low cost. We've done two projects with them and have been very happy both times.
Read Full Review -
Mobile App Dev for On-Demand Car Washing Service
5.0 Sep 6, 2019Beyond their reasonable price structure and technical knowledge, their team is reliable and productive. It’s easy to communicate with them. Furthermore, they approach the project with a high level of integrity.
Read Full Review
Was this helpful?
3 of 4 reviews are 5 stars$50,000 – $199,999 avg. project costRead 4 Recent ReviewsReviewed 4 times in the past 6 months
Simform has received positive feedback over the past six months, highlighting their professionalism and responsiveness. Clients appreciate their collaborative project management and ability to deliver quality work within budget. Notably, one client commended Simform for their commitment to understanding project goals and providing a strong technical foundation. However, some reviews indicated a need for improved documentation and more thorough initial requirement gathering. Overall, the sentiment reflects a strong partnership and satisfaction with Simform's services.Was this helpful?
12 of 13 Application Testing reviews are 5 stars$50,000 – $199,999 avg. project costRead 13 ReviewsApplication Testing PROJECT HIGHLIGHT
Development & QA Support for Lifestyle Membership Platform
5.0 — Simform provides ongoing development and QA support for a lifestyle membership platform. The team has helped develop services, automated the client's regression testing, and set up automated class Read moreWas this helpful?
Average Project Cost Breakdown
Read All ReviewsWhat Clients Have Said
Simform is recognized for providing good value for money, with clients frequently noting that their pricing aligns well with project budgets. Feedback highlights instances where Simform's cost-effectiveness allowed organizations to achieve significant project goals without overspending. Clients appreciated the transparency in pricing and the absence of hidden costs, contributing to a positive overall perception of value. However, there were occasional concerns about project delays and communication, which impacted perceptions of value in specific instances.Was this helpful?
$5,000+$25 - $49 / hr50 - 249Serves Raleigh, NCServices provided
100% Application TestingSee all 32 projectsQualityLogic is a reputable company specializing in Software Quality Assurance and Testing Services, including App Testing and QA Testing. According to client reviews, QualityLogic is praised for their excellent communication and detailed documentation, with approximately 90% of responses highlighting their professional project management and adherence to budget. Clients frequently commend their flexibility and the successful implementation of testing protocols, underscoring QualityLogic's ability to enhance software quality and mitigate risks effectively.
Reviews mention Great team
QualityLogic has consistently received positive feedback regarding their team, with clients highlighting their exceptional communication and expertise. One client praised the 'wonderful' crew for their knowledge and effectiveness, stating they are 'great at their job.' Another noted the lead engineer's proficiency and responsiveness, emphasizing the team's ability to meet timelines and deliver quality results. Overall, the sentiment reflects a strong appreciation for QualityLogic's knowledgeable and dedicated team.-
POS Regression Testing Services for E-Commerce Company
5.0 Aug 31, 2023Meanwhile, we didn’t use any project management tools, but we did use a test tracking system. This system allowed us to see what the team was doing. A lot of our communication was done through Slack and Google Meet. We usually had a 15-minute meeting per week to discuss what the upcoming releases would look like or talk about any of their questions or concerns. They also gave us daily updates through email.
Read Full Review -
Quality Testing for Mutual Benefit Organization
5.0 May 7, 2019Also, they have the right people on their team. Our counterpart is an expert who, once he gets started, can move forward quickly and effectively. He’s incredibly knowledgeable and easy to communicate with.
Read Full Review
Was this helpful?
20 of 22 Application Testing reviews are 5 stars$50,000 – $199,999 avg. project costRead 22 ReviewsApplication Testing PROJECT HIGHLIGHT
Application Testing & QA for Cybersecurity Company
5.0 — QualityLogic provided QA services for a cybersecurity company. Their work included creating automation tests, test cases, and test plans, as well as executing those test cases and plans as manual QA Read moreWas this helpful?
Average Project Cost Breakdown
Read All ReviewsWhat Clients Have Said
Client feedback on QualityLogic highlights a strong sentiment regarding their cost-effectiveness and value for money. Many clients noted that QualityLogic's pricing fits within their budgets while delivering high-quality results. For instance, one client appreciated the 'good value for cost' when selecting them, while another emphasized the 'cost to benefit ratio' as a significant win for their project. Overall, clients expressed satisfaction with the quality of work relative to the investment, reinforcing QualityLogic's reputation for providing substantial value.Was this helpful?
More responsive than most other service providers
Get in TouchQualityLogic is very responsive
They are a great candidate to start a conversation with. Send them a short message or project inquiry.Was this helpful?
-
-
$25,000+Undisclosed2 - 9Cary, NC
Services provided
15% Application Testing25% Custom Software Development15% IoT Development +5 services15% Mobile App Development15% Web Development5% Application Management & Support5% Cloud Consulting & SI5% Other Application DevelopmentSee all 4 projectsOak City Labs is a software development company specializing in creating custom applications and web solutions. The company has received overwhelmingly positive feedback, with 100% of reviewers praising their project management, creativity, and ability to deliver on time. Clients appreciate their collaborative approach, accessibility, and alignment with client goals, consistently highlighting their professionalism and quality of work.
Industry Experience
Oak City Labs has demonstrated expertise across various industries, including education, wellness & fitness, and business services. Clients commend their creativity, effective project management, and strong communication skills. In the education sector, they successfully revamped a website to enhance functionality. In wellness & fitness, they developed an innovative app for Alzheimer's therapy, while in business services, they created a flexible testing compliance system for cannabis laboratories. Overall, feedback reflects a positive sentiment, highlighting the company's strengths in collaboration and problem-solving.
Read All ReviewsSelect Industry to see insights
Human Resources Business services Education Wellness & FitnessWas this helpful?
Average Project Cost Breakdown
Read All ReviewsWhat Clients Have Said
Clients consistently commend Oak City Labs for their exceptional value for money, noting the affordability of their services. For instance, one CEO mentioned spending approximately $5,000, which they found to be a worthwhile investment given the quality of work received. Another client highlighted the company's ability to deliver on promises without excuses, which significantly enhances perceived value. Overall, the sentiment reflects satisfaction with both cost and the outcomes delivered.Was this helpful?
View projects from:
Was this helpful?
Review Rating from Clients
5.0/5.0
Quality
5.0
Schedule
5.0
Cost
5.0
Willing to Refer
5.0
Reviewers in North Carolina highlight Oak City Labs' expertise in web and app development, noting their collaborative approach, innovative ideas, and ability to deliver tailored solutions for complex projects like healthcare platforms and customer engagement tools.Read Local ReviewsWas this helpful?
-
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Holly Springs, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingLocated in Holly Springs, North Carolina, Paragon Application Systems is an Application Testing company. They specialize in Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Morrisville, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingIn Morrisville, North Carolina, Myocardial Solutions is a small Application Testing company. The team provides Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Cary, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingCRM_A, LLC is a small Application Testing company located in Cary, North Carolina. Their services include Application Testing.
Read more -
$250,000+$50 - $99 / hr1,000 - 9,999Morrisville, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% BI & Big Data Consulting & SI20% Enterprise App Modernization +2 services20% Generative AI20% Mobile App DevelopmentEmergys Corporation is a big data analytics company launched in 1998. Located in Morrisville, North Carolina, the team offers BI & big data consulting & SI and Mobile App Development.
Read more -
Undisclosed$25 - $49 / hr2 - 9Raleigh, NC
Services provided
25% Application Testing25% Application Management & Support25% Blockchain +1 service25% CybersecurityKLEAP Technologies is a Cybersecurity company in Raleigh, North Carolina and Hyderabad, India. They provide Cybersecurity and Blockchain and were launched in 2020.
Read more -
$5,000+Undisclosed10 - 49Raleigh, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingApplication Testing company MuukTest is located in Raleigh, North Carolina. They focus on Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Raleigh, NC
Services provided
25% Application Testing25% Cybersecurity25% Mobile App Development +1 service25% Web DevelopmentLaunched in 2024, Digital Osprey LLC is a small Raleigh, North Carolina-based Cybersecurity company. Their services include Cybersecurity and Web Development.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed250 - 999Morrisville, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% IT Managed Services20% IT Strategy Consulting +2 services20% UX/UI Design20% Web DevelopmentIT People Corporation, a midsize UX agency, is based in Morrisville, North Carolina and Hyderabad, India. The team provides UX/UI Design and IT strategy consulting.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Apex, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingLaunched in 2014, Azera Consulting is a small Apex, North Carolina-based Application Testing company. Their services include Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Durham, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingBased in Durham, North Carolina, Web Performance Incorporated is an Application Testing company. Launched in 1999, the team focuses on Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Morrisville, NC
Services provided
25% Application Testing30% Custom Software Development25% Business Consulting +1 service20% Mobile App DevelopmentD2Sol Inc is a Morrisville, North Carolina-based custom software development company. Their services include Custom Software Development and Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Cary, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% IT Strategy Consulting10% BI & Big Data Consulting & SI +5 services10% Corporate Training & Coaching10% Financial Consulting10% Fractional CFO Services10% IT Managed Services10% Market ResearchBased in Cary, North Carolina and Toronto, Canada, Financial Risk Group is an IT strategy consulting company. The team offers IT strategy consulting and Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Cary, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% Cloud Consulting & SI20% Custom Software Development +2 services20% Engineering20% Mobile App DevelopmentJPS Tech Solutions LLC is a cloud consulting & SI company. They are based in Cary, North Carolina and have midsize team. Their services include cloud consulting & SI and Custom Software Development.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Raleigh, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% IT Managed Services20% IT Staff Augmentation +3 services15% Corporate Training & Coaching15% Logistics & Supply Chain Consulting10% AI DevelopmentTryon Solutions, an IT managed services company, is located in Raleigh, North Carolina and Hyderabad, India. They offer IT managed services and IT staff augmentation and were established in 2009.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Cary, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% AI Development20% BI & Big Data Consulting & SI +4 services10% Cloud Consulting & SI10% Custom Software Development10% Web Design10% Web DevelopmentIT Automation LLC is a big data company. They are in Cary, North Carolina and have small team. They specialize in BI & big data consulting & SI and Artificial Intelligence.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Raleigh, NC
Services provided
15% Application Testing20% Custom Software Development15% Content Marketing +4 services15% Engineering15% Video Production10% AR/VR Development10% Audio ProductionTop Flight Computers is a software development company. They focus on Custom Software Development and Content Marketing and were established in 2015.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosedFreelancerDurham, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingNokomis Advisors is a small Application Testing company based in Durham, North Carolina. The team offers Application Testing.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Cary, NC
Services provided
10% Application Testing10% Business Consulting10% Cloud Consulting & SI +7 services10% Custom Software Development10% E-Commerce Development10% ERP Consulting and SI10% IT Managed Services10% IT Staff Augmentation10% Mobile App Development10% Web DevelopmentG&G Technologies, Inc. Is a midsize Cary, North Carolina-based cloud consulting & SI company. The team provides cloud consulting & SI and ERP consulting and SI.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Apex, NC
Services provided
10% Application Testing15% Cloud Consulting & SI15% Custom Software Development +5 services15% IT Managed Services15% IT Strategy Consulting10% AI Development10% DevOps Managed Services10% Mobile App DevelopmentAudLink IT Services is an IT strategy consulting company. The team offers IT strategy consulting and cloud consulting & SI and is located in Apex, North Carolina.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Raleigh, NC
Services provided
10% Application Testing10% AI Development10% BI & Big Data Consulting & SI +7 services10% Cloud Consulting & SI10% Cybersecurity10% Mobile App Development10% Recruiting10% Staffing10% UX/UI Design10% Web DevelopmentTontine Group is an UX company founded in 2018. The firm provides UX/UI Design and BI & big data consulting & SI, and is midsize.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Raleigh, NC
Services provided
10% Application Testing40% API Development20% AI Development +2 services20% Custom Software Development10% Cloud Consulting & SIGEOI Solutions, LLC. Is an API Development company. The Raleigh, North Carolina-based company was founded in 2018. Their services include API Development and Custom Software Development.
Read more -
$1,000+Undisclosed10 - 49Chapel Hill, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% Market Research20% Pay Per Click +2 services20% Search Engine Optimization20% UX/UI DesignBased in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Fillungo is a Market Research company. They focus on Market Research and Search Engine Optimization.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Raleigh, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% AI Development20% CRM Consulting and SI +3 services20% Cloud Consulting & SI10% Cybersecurity10% DevOps Managed ServicesEcho IT Consulting is a cloud consulting & SI company located in Raleigh, North Carolina. They provide cloud consulting & SI and CRM consulting and SI.
Read more -
$25,000+$25 - $49 / hr50 - 249Sanford, NC
Services provided
15% Application Testing20% Custom Software Development20% Mobile App Development +4 services15% Enterprise App Modernization10% AI Development10% IT Staff Augmentation10% IoT DevelopmentNewPage Solutions is a midsize Sanford, North Carolina-based custom software development company. Their services include Custom Software Development and Mobile App Development.
Read more -
Undisclosed$50 - $99 / hr2 - 9Chapel Hill, NC
Services provided
10% Application Testing40% CRM Consulting and SI40% Cloud Consulting & SI +1 service10% Application Management & SupportCloudBudget, a cloud consulting & SI company, was launched in 2012. The small team specializes in cloud consulting & SI and CRM consulting and SI.
Read more -
$1,000+$50 - $99 / hrFreelancerDunn, NC
Services provided
10% Application Testing50% Web Development30% Custom Software Development +2 services5% E-Commerce Development5% IoT DevelopmentLaunched in 2025, Veritas Supera IT Solutions LLC is a small website development company. Their services include Web Development and Custom Software Development.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Durham, NC
Services provided
20% Application Testing20% Business Consulting20% Custom Software Development +2 services20% Mobile App Development20% StaffingLocated in Durham, North Carolina, CloudShift Technologies is a small IT strategy consulting company. Their services include IT strategy consulting and Mobile App Development.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Siler City, NC
Services provided
100% Application TestingLaunched in 2017, Pharmatek Solutions Inc. Is an Application Testing company. The team focuses on Application Testing and is located in Siler City, North Carolina.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Apex, NC
Services provided
10% Application Testing20% Business Consulting20% Corporate Training & Coaching +3 services20% IT Strategy Consulting20% Robotics Process Automation10% DevOps Managed ServicesLaunched in 2016, Daring Systems, a small IT strategy consulting company, is based in Apex, North Carolina. Their team specializes in IT strategy consulting and Business Consulting.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Greensboro, NC
Services provided
40% Application Testing60% Custom Software DevelopmentSoftware development company Zenergy Technologies is based in Greensboro, North Carolina. They focus on Custom Software Development and Application Testing and were founded in 2010.
Read more -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249South Boston, VA
Services provided
25% Application Testing50% Business Consulting25% Contract ManufacturingThe ChemQuest Group, Inc., a Business Consulting company, was launched in 1976. The firm specializes in Business Consulting and Application Testing.
Read moreSee All Locations (3)South Boston, VA
1100 Confroy Dr
South Boston, VA 245922 - 5
Was this helpful?
Share your project goals, and we’ll connect you with verified partners who fit your budget and timeline.
Get My MatchesTell us what you need — we’ll match you with top agencies in minutes.
Get My MatchesLook for Verified Providers
Clutch conducts a rigorous verification process, confirming a provider’s business registration, legal history, credit background, and client feedback to be legitimate, so you can trust their ability to deliver. Learn more
Hire with confidence
Clutch Certification badges show the service areas a provider specializes in, backed by 3+ verified, high-rated reviews in the last 24 months. Learn more
Why Trust Clutch
At Clutch, we believe trust is the foundation of every business relationship. Our mission is to help buyers make confident, data-backed decisions informed by real client experiences.
Every review on Clutch undergoes a rigorous, human-led verification process to make sure it’s valid. Our team of specialists confirms the identity of each reviewer, ensures the project is legitimate, and only publishes reviews that meet our strict criteria.
Verification doesn’t stop at the point of publication. Our Trust & Safety team routinely audits older reviews against our guidelines. When reviews fall short of our standards, we remove them.
We evaluate service providers using a structured methodology that combines:
- In-depth client interviews and ratings
- Comprehensive project details
- Market presence
- Portfolio examples and industry recognition
This data powers tools like the Leaders Matrix, which helps you compare agencies directly. Our research team curates rankings by weighing verified reviews most heavily, so the most trusted and experienced providers rise to the top.
Using this unique combination of verified client feedback and provider-supplied insights, Clutch distills the most important details into clear, digestible summaries so you have everything you need to make confident, informed decisions quickly.
We take fraud seriously. Providers who violate our guidelines may face lower rankings, restricted visibility, or removal from the platform altogether.
Clutch’s commitment to transparency is ongoing. We’re constantly refining our systems to protect the integrity of reviews and support you in finding the right agency.
Rollover to see company insights or click a company below for more details.
A Clutch Leaders Matrix provides a broad view of the top-performing companies in a particular service or location. Each company featured in a Leaders Matrix is evaluated based on Focus and Ability to Deliver. The size of each circle indicates that company’s size.
By using verified reviews, focused service details, and real project data, the Leaders Matrix highlights companies that consistently deliver and stand out from the rest. Each company’s position is based on how well they focus on a service area and how consistently they deliver results, helping you make informed, confident decisions. Learn More
Focus (x-axis)
Focus accounts for a company’s specialization within a certain service.
Ability to Deliver (y-axis)
Ability to Deliver considers three criteria:
- Client feedback and reviews
- Work experience and previous projects
- Market presence and reputation in the industry
List of the Top 1 Raleigh QA Testers
-
$25,000+Undisclosed2 - 9Cary, NC
Ability to deliver
28.4/40.015.8/20 Reviews7.7/10 Clients & Experience4.9/10 Market PresenceService focus
15% Application Testing85% Other -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Holly Springs, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
100% Application Testing -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Morrisville, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
100% Application Testing -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Cary, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
100% Application Testing -
$250,000+$50 - $99 / hr1,000 - 9,999Morrisville, NC
Ability to deliver
5.7/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience5.7/10 Market PresenceService focus
20% Application Testing80% Other -
Undisclosed$25 - $49 / hr2 - 9Raleigh, NC
Ability to deliver
4.6/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience4.6/10 Market PresenceService focus
25% Application Testing75% Other -
$5,000+Undisclosed10 - 49Raleigh, NC
Ability to deliver
6.3/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience6.3/10 Market PresenceService focus
100% Application Testing -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Raleigh, NC
Ability to deliver
4/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience4/10 Market PresenceService focus
25% Application Testing75% Other -
UndisclosedUndisclosed250 - 999Morrisville, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
20% Application Testing80% Other -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Apex, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
100% Application Testing -
UndisclosedUndisclosed2 - 9Durham, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
100% Application Testing -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Morrisville, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
25% Application Testing75% Other -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Cary, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
20% Application Testing80% Other -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Cary, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
20% Application Testing80% Other -
UndisclosedUndisclosed50 - 249Raleigh, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
20% Application Testing80% Other -
UndisclosedUndisclosed10 - 49Cary, NC
Ability to deliver
0/40.00/20 Reviews0/10 Clients & Experience0/10 Market PresenceService focus
20% Application Testing80% Other
Get matched with the 5 best-fit agencies for your project—in 4 minutes or less.